Strong opinions and personalities turned up the heat in a recent Modesto Focus-moderated debate of all seven candidates running for three seats on the Modesto Irrigation District board in the upcoming Nov. 3 election.
Candidates used words like “dysfunction” and “corruption” when describing the current board and saying how they might address challenges.
The MID board oversees policy and prices for farmwater and electricity for hundreds of thousands of customers in Modesto and beyond. Here are the race compositions.
- Most Modesto voters will decide between Division 2 incumbent Janice Keating and challengers Mike Moradian and John Van Oostende.
- Northeast Modesto and west Riverbank voters will choose between Division 3 incumbent Robert Frobose and challenger Dominic Giorgi.
- Voters west of Modesto and in northwest Modesto and Salida will decide between Division 4 incumbent John Boer and challenger Brad Johnson.
A technical glitch caused the loss of video for this debate. Most of the audio was retained, a transcript for which is lightly edited here for brevity and clarity.
Groundwater overpumping east of MID
Focus – The only spot in the area’s subbasin that’s in danger of groundwater depletion is in the nondistrict east around La Grange. Director Larry Byrd represents that division, but this does affect all MID customers. What should be done to avert environmental disaster there?
Van Oostende – I was a ditch tender up in the Waterford area, just below the (non)district east. When farmers up there started drilling wells and sucking water out of the ground, I had farmers’ house wells go dry, so I know the damage that is being done up there. When we have a good water year, those farmers can buy water from MID and run sprinkler water from MID surface water, and that is a really good thing and we need to continue that. To expand farming up in the hills more is going to hurt our valley, and we need to stop that.
Keating – Why don’t we consider giving any amount of water that we may have sitting around that might help our neighboring farmers to a data center? Just saying, the amount of water that the data centers are going to be using is 15 times what anyone in the nondistrict east is using. I would rather figure out a way for our nondistrict east farming community to do exactly what SGMA (Sustainable Groundwater Management Act) is requiring of us and what STRGBA (Stanislaus and Tuolumne Rivers Groundwater Basin Association) is asking – to reduce the pumping by 50%.
Moradian – November through January we need to implement the plan that we have in place for the nondistrict east to start limiting their groundwater pumping by approximately 15%. The nondistrict east has argued that we don’t provide them enough water in wet years, we really need to be thinking about how to retain more surface water, so that we can provide them water in more than just seven out of 20 years. So implement SGMA, then start looking at how do we gain capacity for surface water in our district.
Boer – We had the long-term GRP (Groundwater Replenishment Program) that we put into effect. We’re getting water to those growers in the wet years, and we have one grower that’s taking it already. We’ve made a substantial profit off of that, and $0 charged to the ratepayers in the district. Everything that’s done on that east side has to be done without hampering our ratepayers, our irrigators. With the CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) process and the curtailment of pumping those growers on that side are going to have to look at what their next move is going to be. We cannot be taking care of it for them. We cannot be spending any of our dollars to take care of out-of-district.
Johnson – A lot of people’s wells are going dry out there. To prevent that the most important thing is completing the groundwater sustainability plan. And you guys have been kicking the can down the road for years on that. That needs to get done, and then we can decide what is a sustainable practice and what is unsustainable. And let me make another couple of corrections here – quit calling the electric customers ‘ratepayers.’ They are more than ratepayers. They are customers that we should be treating appropriately.
Frobose – Several years ago, I could see this was a very serious problem that was going to happen to our environment. Long before I was on the board, I tried to put programs together to protect our aquifer. These people that drilled these holes (and) well drillers had a responsibility to this community. They drilled the holes anyway, which enabled the farmers out there. And I don’t know whether to call them farmers or developers. They knew that they were damaging the aquifer. They were sued in 2014 (for it). Since I’ve been on the board, I made a motion to get $200 water to them from MID when we had excess water, where before they tried to sell it for $60, which ratepayers would have been subsidizing that.
Giorgi – I agree with the decisions that are already made for the east side growers. Only farmers within the Modesto basin are eligible for water. We should be able to provide water for them if everybody has a full allocation from the MID. Outside-district farmers within the Modesto basin should pay full cost with no subsidies. It should be plain and simple.
Data center rules
Focus – Should the MID board adopt new guidelines addressing data centers?
Johnson – We should have a new rate structure for sure. Data centers are just another form of big corporations and billionaires taking over, and I don’t think it’s anything we want to encourage.
Boer – I agree. I don’t want to see data centers here either. The amount of power they’re going to use and the water, we’re not set up for it. It’s going to be detrimental. We have no idea what the environmental impact is going to be. I do not back bringing data centers into this valley.
Giorgi – I also agree. For the environmental impact and the amount of water it’s going to use and the electricity, we definitely need to look into it, but as far as I’m concerned, I don’t think that it’s something we can handle, and I’m not a fan of the data centers.
Frobose – I think there’s been some confusion about what MID’s role is in this. I think it’s disingenuous to try to put MID in a position that we can approve them or not because that’s not our role, state law does not allow us to do that. If you want to talk about my personal opinion, I don’t like them at this point because there’s not been enough studies done. The last thing I want is this community to have another environmental disaster, like the east side and the environmental disaster that’s there, and the ratepayers having to pay to fix that. But it’s not MID’s job to decide what gets put here. If it was approved by another agency, we need to have absolute controls in place to make sure that it has no negative effect on the ratepayers.
Keating – Oh, a subject near and dear to my heart. Data centers consume an enormous amount of energy. We plan for the energy that is assumed to be the norm, and when we exceed that, we fire up the Woodland station, and we create energy that is the most expensive throughout the district, and every category of ratepayers has to pay the additional cost. If someone wants that additional energy 24/7 because of (data center) cooling, then every ratepayer (pays for it. We need to) charge them three times what we charge anyone else in the industrial field, and then whatever’s left over, we give back to the ratepayers instead of taking it from them.
Moradian – These major data centers where we’re talking multistory, millions of acres of storage space – nobody here wants that. But we also have to work within the the laws and the confines of what we get to do. We have three data centers in Modesto already. If we’re talking small centers, I don’t think we have any issues. If we’re talking a major thing that’s going to take all of our water and electricity, I think everybody here is agreeing that that’s not what we do because we’re supposed to protect our ratepayers. We have to protect our electrical interests, and we have to protect our water interests.
Van Oostende – I’m here to represent ratepayers of MID, and nobody wants a data center in Modesto, so I am a ‘no’ on data centers. Period.
Outfall from investigations into Larry Byrd
Focus – Are criminal and FPPC investigations into allegations that Director Larry Byrd misused MID water for his personal benefit causing ratepayers to lose confidence in the MID board?
Frobose – I don’t think so. Not from my perspective or my voters, they’re very proud that I have stood up for (them). I know the difference between right and wrong, and I can make the votes on the board that illustrate that. This is a matter of corruption, and justice needs to be done. The ratepayers need to be made whole. The board was unable to act. Chris Ott and I were the only ones that voted for further investigation. The further investigation was needed to wrap up how much water has actually been used in an unauthorized manner. It’s not a matter of if he used the water in an unauthorized manner, because the report clearly shows he did. We have a responsibility to govern the ratepayers. We had to ask somebody else to step in.
Giorgi – MID paid for (a third)-party investigation, and the civil grand jury and DA’s office are conducting investigations. The DA office is also conducting an investigation. I support the current ongoing MID investigation regarding the water and the parcels. I support MID cooperating with the DA office, but if nothing comes of it, I’m gonna have to say that a fifth investigation, for ratepayers’ expense, makes no sense at this point. I know what they’re looking for, but if you haven’t found it yet, I don’t know why we’re still continuing to spend money at it.
Moradian – Knocking on doors and getting to know people, they are very frustrated with this process and the lack of transparency. Whether we know or don’t know is not the question at this point. But we’ve got to prove our innocence. Whether we’re talking about Larry Byrd potentially diverting water or taking water, we need to be open and honest and transparent because that’s the responsibility that we took on by being board members. Larry also voted two times before, which actually creates an issue because he said that he wasn’t out of district, but in fact he did vote on water rates for out of district people when he had a financial interest in that decision. Those things need to be cleaned up because trust is completely lost in this subject, and they’re wondering how many other shoes are going to drop with other things coming up.
Van Oostende – MID has spent a lot of money outside the district to investigate this. I think this should have been investigated within the district, and I think it wasn’t done very well. This should have been done in-house and taken care of. If there’s a problem out there, we should have dealt with it, and it hasn’t, and it’s still going on. There’s a lot of people that are embarrassed by the board of what’s going on, and this needs to come to a conclusion and stop this foolishness. It’s not common sense. It’s costing the district money, which is going to cost the ratepayers, and that needs to stop.
Keating – Regarding the vote to investigate Director Byrd, I abstained on the second attempt after an engineering firm that we hired for $66,000-plus came back with an inconclusive designation as to whether or not anything had happened, and any water was being diverted from MID onto nondistrict. Everybody suspects everybody who’s nondistrict that has fractional parcels. Everyone wonders. I heard plenty about how the accuser is guilty. I raised two children, and the one thing I learned is that when the kids are fighting in the back seat, because this is Director Byrd, and this is Director Frobose, who unfortunately you have to sit in between. Going after one another, you don’t take sides. You tell them to stop fighting, and you move on, or I’ll pull the car over.
Frobose – She says that the report came back inconclusive. It came back inconclusive as to how much water he used unauthorized, and this is not a fight between Director Byrd and myself. This is a fight between the rules and Director Byrd. The rules say you cannot use water outside the irrigation district, and that ties to our water rights. And our water rights right now are being under attack by Sacramento. If we can’t show the State Water Control Board, there’s a bigger issue here at play. It’s not farmer against farmer. The State Water Control Board, as we all know, is trying to take our water. If we can’t show that we are exercising our water rights properly, which means making sure people are not using the water outside the district, we’re going to have a much tougher battle keeping our water rights intact, and that’s one of my most major concerns.
Boer – I have abstained on the advice of our general counsel, but do I think there’s a problem? Yes, I think there’s a problem. The problem needs to be handled to get done, so we can move on to bigger and better things and keep more control on the situations at hand. Do I think there is an issue all across? Yes, and that’s the reason why certain things are being looked at right now. And once those come out, then we can address the whole thing and fix the problem. We have rules set in place for a reason, and those rules do state straight up that water does not leave the district, and that’s what the guidelines say, and that’s what we have to go by.
Johnson – Maybe there has to be buffer zones around the district to prevent that. The rules that are in place were put in place by the people who make the rules. This is all just a great example of how we have conflicts of interest on the board of MID. Board members have financial relationships with water customers, agreements about farming – these are inappropriate. Your lawyer would be saying these are problems; they need to be resolved. They’re putting their own board member insurance policy at risk. If the people who insure the board heard what was going on, your insurance rates would go up, or you’d lose the policy. It’s a very serious matter. These issues need to be resolved. MID needs to have transparency, and the board members should not be involved with the customers like this. This is inappropriate. And the water thing is not the only thing people are wondering about. There’s a long list of things at MID over the years that have been problematic. Why are we providing power to Mountain House? What developer walked away with that bag of money? Why are we providing power in Ripon?
Preparation for climate change
Focus – What more should MID do to prepare for the effects of climate change?
Van Oostende – We do a great job at MID with water distribution, saving it in Don Pedro, watching the rainfall, releasing if we have to. What can we do differently on climate change? I don’t know. MID is doing a wonderful job. The people that work at MID are doing a great job serving the customers. We are a very reliable service and whatnot. I do like hydroelectricity, and I think we can do a little bit more of that, which is great green energy. There’s a lot of places on our canals we can put smaller hydro plants and create green energy that way. So that would be a good thing for MID to look into.
Keating – I think we already adhere to the state mandates that require us to purchase a certain amount of energy that matches the climate change agenda. Those hydro canal-type things haven’t worked out. TID tried it. OID tried it. As far as I’m concerned, I would rather MID start taking a more firm stand against the federal and state mandates that are forcing us to choose alternatives that are more costly to our ratepayers and-or customers, as somebody has mentioned.
Moradian – Whether we like it or not, the planet is getting warmer every year. For what causes, we don’t need to worry about that side of it. But putting water back in our aquifer protects us because evaporation is one of our biggest problems with the lakes and all the canals. Putting water back in the aquifer allows us to protect that water through not having evaporation. TID is right now working on a program to put solar panels over the canals to generate energy, but also to protect the evaporation of the canals because that’s their biggest issue. So we’re watching that closely, and if that works, that’s going to be another thing that we’re going to have to implement and look at the cost effectiveness.
Johnson – That was all really hard to listen to. I think most board members are from the political party that thinks climate change is a hoax. Climate change is not a hoax. It’s definitely getting hotter, definitely. And you’ve all talked about water issues, but climate change is about fossil fuel. And that power plant across the street is burning a hell of a lot of fossil fuel – $20 million a year, right? Millions of dollars every month. We should be encouraging solar in our district. MID has a negative policy about solar. They go around telling the customers that solar’s time is just not here yet. I’ve actually heard them say that to people with their little information booth at public events. It’s infuriating. I put solar panels on my house 10 years ago. I put some more in the backyard. I put some more on the patio. I could generate 100% of my power by solar, but MID’s policy prevents homeowners from doing that. They’ve pretty much killed off home solar in this area and capped it at 5% and keep changing their policies to make it harder and harder for people to green up their energy profile on their home. A new initiative is coming called balcony solar, where people can have (1,200) watts. This will be the best way to do it.
Boer – With climate change we’ve seen a lot of differences in our snowpacks and our rainfalls. With the partnerships with TID, the City and County of San Francisco, we have very good record keeping and data and research done into watching these levels, maintaining our storage, and being at a point where we can be more precise on any kind of river flows. We have to provide a certain amount to the river at certain times, and have pulse flows at certain times. They are able to keep that closer to the droplet size and the amount versus 10, 15 years ago when we would be off by acre feet going down that river. So, with the advent of technology and everything else at the dam, we have better control of what’s coming in and what’s going out, and looking into the future.
Giorgi – Wind supply is roughly 16% of the MID’s power, and solar is 13%. MID relies on banked credits to meet these mandates that the state is requiring. Don Pedro generation power is a clean power source that is already used, and I feel we need to aggressively tell the state that this is what we need to do to have more clean energy instead of running other type of renewable stuff.
Frobose – One of the things that we do have data to be able to look back at years of storms and how they’ve affected our ability to store water, and what we’re discovering is that the dry periods are lasting longer and the wet periods are longer with more water. The way forward that I’ve worked on since I’ve been on the board is we need to provide more conservation. At Milnes we have a regulating reservoir that helps us conserve about 7,000 acre feet a year. We’re working on a couple more of those. Protecting our underground water basin is huge because that’s what we can rely on in times of drought.
Civility – or lack thereof – on MID board
Focus – How would your presence affect civility and the atmosphere on the MID board?
Boer – You have to have differences to bring up discussion and get everything out with full transparency. You go over everything, you go through all the items, you have a discussion. I might not agree with you, you might not agree with me, but I’ll tell you what, by the time we get down to that discussion, we’re going to walk out that door with a handshake and a goodbye and have something solved. And that’s the way it should be.
Johnson – It’s important that the board be cordial with each other and not be inappropriate as individuals. Personally, I’m going to bring electronic experience to the board, and I’m going to be willing to listen to the electric questions and hear about the electric infrastructure, and I am going to push like hell to bring solar power to this district. We need more solar power, and I am not hearing anything about that from the other board members. We should be producing our own power at our house. That is by far the cheapest way to get it: not building power plants, not falling water, solar power, and all we have to do is get out of the way. The people will buy their own solar power, and we won’t have that load to worry about during the day.
Frobose – If we keep our eye on the ratepayers and make sure that our intentions are always to try to protect the ratepayers because MID works for the ratepayer. It is required, even under the law, to have a loyalty to the ratepayers, and if the board members all keep that in mind, even though there’s disagreement on how to best protect the ratepayer, that brings a certain amount of civility. It’s when people get off that beaten track, then it becomes difficult because our sole purpose is to be loyal to the ratepayers and protect their interests. When some people don’t stay on that focus, then yeah, it’s going to get a little bit tough to get along. But you have to respect each other regardless.
Giorgi – As board members, you got to be able to get along. Nobody’s going to agree with one another, but you do have to find common sense and common ground. But you also have to have a lot of respect for the people and their position, and listen to their ideas. And at the end of the day, you have to find what best works for everybody. If they all work together, all the ratepayers would be able to work or be able to function normally, and not worry about our rate hikes right now.
Keating – I’ve heard some talk today, which I didn’t get to respond to when Mr. Moradian brought up me, about bringing back civility or decorum at the MID board. I’m the first and only woman elected to the MID board in over 135 years. When I got there, I was completely surprised that the good old boy network that runs MID had not even entered the 21st century, but I was definitely surprised that they hadn’t entered the 20th century. They did not want me there, and they certainly didn’t want me to stay, and they didn’t like my opinion. I’ve been spit at, I’ve been screamed at, I’ve been abused, but I’m not going anywhere because at the end of the day, regardless, I have a job to do. And every day that I walk into that boardroom, I do it, regardless of how I’m treated.
Moradian – If you want to go on my website, MikeforMID.com, you can read the information about Janice Keating and the things that she’s done. I don’t like to talk disparagingly; it’s just in the (news)papers. Modesto Focus, Modesto Bee, many other entities out there, and we have a few of those things. So if you want to learn about how nice and civil Janice has been, you can find that out. I would say me doing the things I’m doing now. I’m already developing relationships with the TID board. I’m not a board member. I’m already developing relationships with OID, with the city of Modesto, with the current board members, and with the people that we’re supposed to be representing, the ratepayers. I’m already developing those relationships. I have two employees: one that’s been with me for 31 years, and one that’s been with me for 30 years. I have a business partner that’s been with me for 27 years. I’ve been married for 32 and with the same woman for 38. I have relationships that last long. You can’t have long relationships if you don’t know how to get along. I admit when I’m wrong. I’m far from perfect. I’ve said things that I shouldn’t, but I apologize. And I’m willing to embrace other people’s ideas. That’s some of the stuff that we’re missing from our board today; we’re not willing to listen to other people.
Keating – The question is not whether Director Byrd or Director Frobose or Director Boer and myself have different ideas. The question is how they approach when someone does have a different idea and a different vote.
Van Oostende – If you see my signs out, it says that I got 30 years’ experience and common sense. I will address each board member with common sense and civility. There’s no reason to argue or to yell at the general manager or anybody at MID. We do this with civility and common sense, and we’re there to serve the ratepayers, and lower the rate so that it can be affordable for everyone, and deliver water, and that’s what we need to focus on. I know the board members, I’ve known past board members because I’ve worked for the district for 30 years, and I know how to talk to them. It’s not rocket science.
Frobose – I take pride in treating people with respect, whether I agree with them or I don’t. And Director Keating, when she makes these allegations that she’s been spit on and treated with disrespect, she’s entitled to her opinion. But she’s not entitled to her own facts. When she made these false allegations, the court reminded her with a $45,000 fine that her allegations were not substantiated in any way, shape, or form. So you can throw out these allegations.
Boer – My late father taught us your word is your bond, and you try to help everybody. And during the four years, I tried to help anybody that does not know about something, and I had the knowledge on it to try to clear things up. And there’s been many times where I have done that, and fellow board members say, “Oh, okay, that’s how that works.” Your word is your bond. Be honest. Don’t lie. Be open.
Keating – Everything that happened to me and the behavior that was displayed by a certain board member with six other males in the room happened during closed session, and as far as the lawsuit is concerned, I had no choice but to protect myself because it wasn’t ending; it was escalating, and the only way anyone would listen to me was to file a lawsuit against the district and against the director. Unfortunately, it never went to court. It never had a hearing. None of the evidence was presented.
Closing statements
Johnson – Some of the things that I’d like to accomplish is I’d like to get rid of that $32 monthly electric charge. That’s just ridiculous. Other districts, the monthly charge is $5 or $10. That hides the cost of the kilowatt hours, and it makes it difficult to compare electric services. So that would be the first thing. The other thing would be to eliminate some of the late fees that really impact the poorest of the customers. So getting rid of the fixed rate trap, ending the late predatory fee. MID used to be a supportive public utility rather than a corporate collector like a debt collector. Then we need to stop the delays and finish the groundwater sustainability plan. We need to protect our future and make sure we don’t put our underground aquifers at risk. And most importantly, we need to quit calling them ratepayers. They are electric customers.
Giorgi – It is clear that we are desperately in need of change on the MID board of directors. The board has become completely dysfunctional with endless fighting within instead of looking out for the interests of our community and most importantly the ratepayers. MID is a public utility and directors are supposed to serve the public, not themselves. The infighting is a huge distraction for what is really important, like controlling the skyrocketing administration costs that have doubled, stopping the huge rate increases, keeping our water in our Modesto basin, reaching a deal with the state to avoid devastating cuts to our water supply. We can only achieve these goals working together and not against each other.
Frobose – MID is the most reliable electrical provider in the state of California, and it’s also one of the lowest in its rate structure. It provides some of the lowest rates. I have worked very hard to make sure that we have been able to continue that. We started a committee that I created which is saving the ratepayers. And after the very first year on this board, we have had three consecutive balanced budgets that have produced no rate increase. We’re going to have rules going in place next year that I work very hard on to protect our underground aquifer for generations to come.
Van Oostende – I’m here to serve. Out of Division 2, I’m the best one qualified for this job. I’ve got 30 years’ experience at MID. I’ve got common sense. I can bring this board together. We can go after the high costs that we’re charging the ratepayers, and let’s work on lowering our rates. Let’s work on getting Don Pedro relicensed and keep our water in our district. And I can do that. I can hit the road running because I know the district.
Moradian – This election for District Two comes down to three choices. You can either keep the existing board member, who’s the center of the dysfunction of the board, or you can select somebody who’s had a lifetime of being an MID insider, or you can select me, someone who will fight for ratepayers and protect our electrical and water resources.
Keating – Data centers are knocking on our doors. The Modesto Focus actually mentioned that MID had to admit that an application has recently been received. If you’re reading the news, you can’t count on the Modesto City Council or the MID board majority to stop them. Just ask Wood Colony how the city of Modesto treated them. They were not within the general plan last January. I’m all in on this fight. Data centers are bad for Modesto.
Boer – With my past 33 years’ experience in being a volunteer in my community and a chief officer of our fire department, I am no slouch to community service. My door has always been open. It’s been open to every single person. I have even put comments on social media, “Hey, come talk to me.” My email is right there. I’ll set up a meeting with anybody at any time to go over any of these issues. I’ve always been transparent, and I’ve been very knowledgeable within many different areas of our fights. We’ve learned a lot fighting the state. I’m an open book. Let’s keep this in our control.
Want to get perspectives and analysis on the latest Modesto and Stanislaus County political news? Sign up for our Political Focus newsletter, written weekly by seasoned politics reporter Garth Stapley. It’s free!